It seems like a good time to start a new thread since the "Tips for Growing" thread has introduced the concept of pricing. So, here we go. What's the cost of growing medicine? What's a fair price for patients? Should there be a sliding scale for patients based on ability to pay? Should caregiver operations be "non-profit" as is required in Oregon and by the new proposed California regulations? What does non-profit mean?
Have at it, folks, and thanks again for your participation
Subscribe to:
Post Comments (Atom)
23 comments:
When considering pricing of medicine I look at time and money invested to derive a reasonable price. For many years I would charge nothing or next to nothing for medicine. then I realized one of my patients was retailing my medicine on the black market for a profit. I do not wish to be a profiteer and get rich from medicine, however I do need to cover my costs 150 per ounce does not cover my costs. I drive over 3 hours to deliver medicine sometimes. I spend 20 plus hours per week taking care of plants. Add in trim time delivery time rent and electric and nutrients. Well it adds up. Operating as a none profit that sounds great. I wouldnt want to be a 501c3. I think a agricultural non profit that can still legaly lobbie govt. might be a little more what I would lean towards. there are many expenses and a whole lot of time that goes into doing this right. I think we all want whats fair.I am eager to here the views and thoughts of other caregivers.
I've talked to a lot of caregivers and it seems like they conclude that season over season their cost to grow is about $200/oz. This assumes a lost crop now and then. Do others find this reasonable?
I think that cost is correct if they have been set up in there scene for over 6 grow cycles. I just spent over $*****.** in start up this year. To depreciate that cost over 1 year then take just operating cost and valueing your time at a yearly income level of
25k to 35k your cost would be around 200/oz.That does not include paying an attorney,accountant,taxes,lisc. To run a retail business has many behind the scene costs.This year I am still in debt and do not anticipate making a income for over a year? All it takes is one hermaphrodite or bug or electric problem or asshole landlord and it is all gone.
Hey Forumadmin Can we have a post started to exchange food recipes? My wife just made the best cannabis blackberry cobbler. It would be fun to share.
Has anybody been working with tinctures? I would like to hear what the pricing is, as well as any tips you all might have.
As far as "who to charge and who not to charge", that's a really tough dilemma. I think most caregivers would gladly give medicine out for free if it was possible. We seem to all be in this for the right reasons, and not to make a huge profit. Unfortunately, it's next to impossible at this time (in our case) to charge under market value. RMCC is trying to work on a case-by-case basis, even implementing a sliding scale based on income. But, in order to provide this service, we rely on those patients that can pay full-price for their medication. So, even though we can't make it free for everyone, I take comfort in the fact that we CAN make it free for those who need this service the most. I doubt that any of the caregivers on this site would ever turn someone away for lack of money. Let's just keep in mind that we are all working towards the same goals.
I know it'll take a while to get there, but here is a goal to consider: $10/ounce
To get there, we'd need to have outdoor growing without threat of prosecution or theft (by law enforcement thieves or regular thieves).
Cannabis is just a plant. Like Hops ($3/oz), Basil ($7/LB) and Dill ($5/LB).
There is no botanical reason that high quality marijuana can't be grown in large crops throughout the United States.
There are two groups that generally want to maintain prohibition, both for financial reasons: Law Enforcement and the profiteers of the marijuana black market.
Back on topic:
I applaud loudly the Montana caregivers who have committed to offering a sliding scale to recognize the differing circumstances of their patients. This proves to me that for you, it's about the medicine, not pot-growing for profit.
Thanks NORML - and we most definitely agree. I've worked in bulk herbs, both medicinal and food-grade. There's absolutely NO reason (good one, that is) why this medicine shouldn't be categorized in either category. We still have quite a fight ahead before we can do the $10/ounce... but we truly look forward to that day.
I'm looking for an estimate of what patients use each month (one ounce at a time, of course). What are your experiences?
My weekly medical use for chronic pain is an ounce a week average.
Rich
On average I consume around 1 1/2 ounces of medicine per week. That includes cooking and tinctures.
Just like in real life, won't there still be those that feel entitled to the very best of the very best, price be damned?
You know, there ARE master strains grown by herb masters that, besides being among the strongest yet created, are absolutely perfect in every conceivable way. Like CUP worthy?
These folks are patients too and if this niche isn't possible locally, I see no reason they wouldn't shoot on down to California to get to the top shelf of U.S. homegrown, or just buy it when available on the streets locally?
Just like most buy generic meds whenever possible, there are always those that need the name brand.
I haven't bought a name brand drug in my adulthood, nor ANY marijuana.
Maybe next lifetime?
If we weren't so dag-gone spread out up here, dispensaries wouldn't be so far from a reality still.
I'd like to open the Western Montana Herbal Society, or whatever . . . a place where a legal grower could take his harvest for distribution among the MMJ community. Certainly would broaden the menu, IMO.
Would also help regulate prices and eliminate low grade grown product.
Too bad I'm such a procrastinator!
(or Thank God!)
Annonymous - you're coming from the same line of thinking that we are. We've been working on building a cooperative, and would really like to toss some ideas back and forth with anyone willing to share - e-mail us at rmcc@hushmail.com
i would be infavor of a place where i can take my overstocked medicine and drop it of at a disperancy/phyarmacy and get a whole sale price for it to cover my cost & time. ($250) but i like the idea of name brand and basic. I.E. if your on cemo.. you might need a type of strain called cookie monster for eating and not one call putty brain..for stress. There is allways thouse who will want quanity vs. quality and the reverse of it so.. i think chouse is best for all.
As the world falls apart i might start trading meds for food or other needed items..
But for now i think a small fee should be included (some how??)that will go to the defence funds. Maybe a yearly Caregivers Guild membership fee could cover it, or a small dispensaries membership fee? also if your not a guild member = no protection.. so there is one movation to join OUR Guild,thuse increseing the ranks and helping us stick to MT pratices and polices.
Laws and Gov't policies come in & out of favor with the times...so all of us can benefit from having some $$$ in the war chest for the protection/lobbing of our cause.
Freedom is not free & and he who has the gold makes the rules..so lets find a way to fund ourselves. It's time to pony-up!
there is a big diffrence between outdoor and indoor,you will never get indoor quality outdoors but you never will have the expense.personally i'm a very picky conissuer and saying that I use the very best outdoor for change of flavor,indoor for serious medicating.is this true or false?
what the hall is a guild I think I read abuot 18th century history,today I think the words are association,club,organizations,collectives, this I understand I lost my history books,welcome to the 21st century.but I do believe we need some type of caregiver assoc.orsomething that we would feel secure to come out and play.
It seems like there are a lot of "young" idea's...anyone that thinks they will gain "security" from a coop,club,patient resorce center or private orginization is mistaken in my book. YOU create your own security. The only other way is through legislation and donating to patients and families so they lobby for us.
Rich
OMG! I am so tired of people making money off my pain and diseases. From the Ins. co ,the Doctor, the Drug co., the phyarmacy, the lab, the whole medical services dept. and Now the caregivers.(what a joke!!) If anyone should proft in any small way from this law & drug policy it should be the card holder patients. i am just a little o'gal, self providing for the last 2 & 1/2. to ill to work, so my job is my garden. excluding the setup, which has paided for it self, my cost for my monthly meds is about $100( mostly elect.) for 2-3 oz.(depends on the plant) making it about $50 an oz $25 an half. so why do the caregivers what close to street price? If there cost to produce is higher maybe they are doing something wrong? If they are producting in bulk should'nt the price be less? NOT MORE fellows! At my price, i can afford to donate what little, if any unsued med ( 1/2 oz or so) to another Patient at cost. It would be great if M.T.P.U.F knew what patients could self produce and thouse who could not and set up an exchange. That way we need not have to worrie about these shaddy third party caregivers trying to making money of our diseased carcasses.
all them 3rd party caregivers helped vote in this law if it wasnt for the nonlegal comunity we wouldnt have this right dont forget the little people
To the lil ol gal gardener-
You said it dear,your job is to garden. Gardening is a big job,not excluding the setup,including. I dont sell my meds and I know how much work it is... I also am too disabled to work...I wouldnt deny a caregiver money for their time if it wasnt too outrageous.
I have a question for you. If you have someone with a card that wants to buy meds from you and is fairly well off. Do you caregive? Do you sell your meds for cost? Do you charge anything for your time? What if they wanted a steady supply? Would it start to cut into your supply? What if you had one of the many disasters one can encounter producing your own meds? Would you have to go "out" and buy them?
Just a few things to think about.
Take care
Rich
To the lady gardener - I am happy to hear that you are providing for yourself. That's great - there aren't that many patients that CAN provide for themselves. However, I think it's fair to say that most of the caregivers would LIKE to give it out for less money, it's just that we have multiple patients that would be without, or buying it off the street, if it wasn't for us caregiving.
One of our goals, is to help a patient start their own garden, and maybe become self sufficient at some point. We're not trying to profit from your misery, truly.
One of our goals is to provide medicine REGARDLESS of ability to pay, so it helps if there are those that can pay something towards the overhead expenses. A smaller set-up may produce enough medicine to charge low prices, but when you are caregiving for multiple people, the overhead goes WAY up.
Please keep in mind that these are NEW laws, and it will take some time for the market to regulate. I think the more people that get involved in caregiving, the more we'll ALL be able to get medicine to patients at lower prices. But this can't happen overnight (unfortunately).
Also, from my own opinion, I came into this role because I care, because I was sick of seeing people struggling to find medicine on the street, and because I knew I could do something to help. I put myself and my career at risk every day, but it's worth it to see more patients getting the care they need. After speaking with other caregivers, I know I'm not the only one who has the right goals in mind. Take care, be well.
Namaste.
as a current patient and a former grower I can sorta speak from both worlds. Back in the '70s the growers I knew who I supplied the first Montana Thunderf#ck clones to(my own breed) all made a compact to never charge more than $200/oz. Allowing for inflation that would be around $250 or so today. I personally use about 1/2-1 oz. per month for chronic pain due to spinal injury. I will grow probably 1 or 2 plants to supply most of my needs. My question is assuming the limits are changed to the 12 plant/Oz. quota and I have a caregiver then they would be able to have 10 plants and 10 oz. based on caregiver status for myself. Now if something happens to my 2 plants and I need to periodically get an oz or two from my caregiver what should I be charged for that? I mean most of the time they will have a SURPLUS based on my consumption.As far as I am concerned this surplus should be used for other patients who use more.However at $250 or even $100 the provider is going to end up with pretty substantial returns on my surplus.Now should this provider be giving me a kickback or discount? We obviously need to continue discussion on these issues so as to not feed conservative media any ammo to bash MM laws with.
Post a Comment