This blog is intended to be a resource for Montana's medical marijuana patients, families, and supportive associates.
Friday, November 28, 2008
Considerations regarding co-ops
Daddio requested this thread, and I think it's time for the discussion. Have at it.
44 comments:
Anonymous
said...
ok I'll bite... What are the pro's and con's of a co-op? How does a co-op work? What is it differnt between an co-op and an union or guild,? Can a co-op be state wide? What are tax guide lines for a co-op? pro's vs. con's Are co-op regulated by Laws and Gov't depts.? which ones? Is a MT med co-op based in a AG co-op setting like Western Suger? Can a MT Med co-op be a physiological co-op?
Please!!! inform US so we will not fear or be ignorant of the law. zebon
My own view is that zebon's questions are largely a matter of semantics. A "co-op" means what you decide it does, and same for a "union" or a "guild." And tax questions are separate, specific to "for profits" and "non profits" and various types of legal structures one can choose (check a basic business book, I would think, for starter-insight). Meanwhile, Montana's medical marijuana law contains no particular provisions for "co-ops" or variations of whatever your specific concept might happen to be. Anything other than a single caregiver, providing solely to his or her registered patients, is something that operates in one of our law's many gray areas and not something that PFU would recommend. It's unfortunate, but that's the current status, and while we plan to try our hardest to be effective in promoting positive change this coming winter, we don't expect to succeed on issues of this sort in the near future.
hi all ....i am new here but on board with all of you 100%. i do have another question ...can a person be a caregiver for more than one registered patient? If so would not that be a start of a co-op? forgive me if some of my questions have been asked ...as i stated i am new here but you will all know me very well, soon.......i am a big supporter of Montana's medical marijuana law. stay well dr bud
As long as growers don't have any outlet for any excess legal harvest, some are gonna dump it onto the streets, and this needs to be addressed. I don't know how co-ops work, but think it's basically a bunch of folks with common interests combining their stocks to buy up excess, regulate prices, quality, etc. and insure such stock always be available to it's members only. I'd like to see any Mt. co-op include measures to buy up lower cut product, popcorn buds, trichchome covered leaves, etc. and then process it into usable product, like hash, oils and the likes. Members would also enjoy the legal trading of clones. Obviously we've been left on our own to work out these open issues and if no one does anything, nothing will happen.
You ask tough questions . . . ones needing more than speculation. Let us co-op the research. I'll see what I can gather on the tax angle.
The Attorney General of California, Jerry Brown, has just compiled an "opinion" on cooperatives. While it will have no impact on Montana, it might set a standard for how our state law evolves.
What Brown says is that the cooperatives need to be non-profit. That doesn't necessarily mean 501-C3, but it does mean not for profit.
Now, this doesn't mean the cooperative can't pay a salary or compensation. So the trick is just to end the fiscal year with a zero on the bottom line. You don't have to be too creative to see how this is accomplished.
co-oops....well i am doing some research. so far...... co-ops are owned by like minded people ...that would be us..... consumers in some co-ops get dividends on how much product they purchase...yes employees get paid too.....dividends are paid out of any profits that are made...the more the consumer buy's the more dividends they receive back... a co-op is a force of people, (consumers), like a big partnership with alot of "partners" so to speak. there for, if there would be 1000 consumers they would also be owners ...hmmmm wow now that would be a voice... still searching
again thanks to mtpfu for this site be well dr,bud
oh yeah, there are different types of 501's political and non-political i was the founding father of a national 501 (c)(6) a little over a year ago this is a political non profit, imo, this would be the way to go so we keep a voice in MT. it is a lot of work and some funding, it takes people that work hard! it took 6 months of meetings once a week, everything has to be in place or it can fall flat on its face.....fast. i'm up for it...not falling on my face....but to make it happen this could also be a GREAT way to help those whom are on a low income and need help.
Count us in - does anyone have an opinion on agricultural non-profits? It could work to allow family farmers to supplement their income. That's something we've been pondering. I see nothing in the qualifications that would exclude us - We're on board...
Not all that difficult to be a "non-profit" what with all the expenses of initial system set-up, electricity, rent/mortgage, security, nutrients. Factor in a couple cycle failures, insect infestations,thieves and the many "friends" you will attract and that profit margin drops off the radar pretty hastily.
A union or guild carry definitions that have political or religious intent. A co-op is a group working together to accomplish the same goals. Co-op membership does come with benifits as well as responsibilities. The purpose of co-op membership would be larger purchasing power,cheaper prices, and safety. With hopes of providing so much cheap medicine that a new low for medicine pricing is established. Namaste
I like what i am reading on co-op's & I'am with ya,call it what ever you want! JUST LET'S DO IT but... how far would i have to drive in the winter, let's say.. to drop off? K-spell, ZooLa? Could we have 3 regional areas to the state? and with the thought of adding other product lines, like baked good and oils. the co=op maybe could run a local outlet densperancy at the collection point?.. as more and more pepole find there way to cards not everyone will be able to aford to or be in need to manage large amounts or even the ability to smoke the med.i think free samples will keep us very nonproft.
Okay... breathe.. Let's remember that nothing can be built overnight, and although there is an urgency and a definite need for some kind of organized group (whatever the terminology used), we must keep in mind that these things take time... that is, if we want to do them right. Nothing of value comes fast and easy. Namaste.
free samples: my doc gives free samples of drugs and if you call the number on the T.V. Ad from drug Co. you can get a free samples but when i go to CVS or Wallgreensn NO free samples and payment is C.O.D same as when i buy on the street. I have also gotten shitty meds on the street & from people who don't know how to grow or cure. so you say it's "good" and you want how much for it?
A co-op would be ideal considering the current state of laws on MMJ in Montana.
I think that a co-op could be either a collection of caregivers or a single person/group organizing and running a collection of caregivers.
This will achieve 3 things:
1) Caregivers will not have to deal directly with patients freeing up time (money) for them
2) Patients can go to a single location to find out what kind of meds are available rather than having to go through multiple channels just to find 1 caregiver.
3) Prices can be kept sane and limited so we don't turn into California.
co-ops will not work for the patients in the back wood of montana who have to drive an hr to the nearest hospital they need carecivers a lot closser to them and it would cost to much to establish a co-op in enouph places to reach those patients
We have a co-op. It is called the Rocky mountain Cannabis Co-operative. We deliver to the backwoods of Montana. We are just getting started and developing our group of patients/members. We are commited to producing high quality medicine at a reasonable price. I have been involved in this movement for many years and have worked through many of the snags we have discussed here. If anyone is interested in meeting face to face and disscussing how our non-profit co-operative can help. Drop us a e-mail. rmcc at hushmail. com.
We are willing to deliver state wide. Our goal is to provide safe access to high quality affordable medicine for all medical marijuana patients in Montana.
Hello all, I am puting a x-mass Defence Fund Challange out there to ALL other Cargivers out there. To meet or beat my donation of $100. I mailed it to day,so please give it a day or 2 to get there and then the admin.could post... if I was B.S.'n (NOT) this is $$$ well spent! Zebon.
I believe this is a state wide problem,not just sanders county. Could be a new blog though....Admin... Counties medication is scarce. Could link up patients and caregivers state-wide. Rich
I also wanted to invite you and other PF&U staff to my board. I would like to give you guys your own forum there if you were interested in posting your News updates etc.
There has to be a way to make this Medicine available to those who may not be able to afford it. If the co-op idea could make that happen that would be the best thing. Narrow-minded insurance companies aren't going to step up and besides there are many without insurance anyway. There are Patient Assistance programs out there for many other medicines so why should mm be any different? If we all come together we should be able to figure out how best to help people in need. No one should go without medication that improves their quality of life.
Hi, This is mike from The Healing Center in bozeman a community co-op. I would like to addresse some questions here.1. we do bas our co-op off california standards.2. we are a not for profit.3. we are trying to get a classification on the mt. secrateray of states website.4. We are open to all out there wanting to help patients.5. we work on a percentage basis to provide free meds to patients as well as accepting a resonable copensation for costs incurred by the co-op.We look forward to working together to help patients...we do have meds avail dried and cured incuding,cannabutter,tincture,oils,clones,help with setting up your own grow room...mike 406-581-8712 email us at wscc420@yahoo.com
We are pondering becoming a Co-OP but will wait to see about what happens in 2009's legislative session before we determine that. This year is very exciting! We are caregivers in the Butte area but will travel anywhere in the state in order to service our patients. Mining City Medical Marijuana is new but we have the best QUALITY medicine in the state. Always organic, always healthy! We are currently offering Trainwreck, a beautiful indoor organic. We carry edibles as well and are here to assist you with any questions you may have. Whether it be about the laws, the treatment of symptoms with certain strains or even a doctor referral, if we do not know we will find out! We are here to help ensure health and happiness to all our patients! Peace, Love and Health! All emails welcome--minigncitymdmjathotmail.com
I'm thinking we could model a Co-op on the Montana Organic Producers Co-op, since what we're doing is only different by the nature of the specific 'produce' we are looking to grow. http://www.ofarm.org/pages/031307.htm I'm working on obtaining a copy of their formation documents. Once obtained I'll ask around about how this would have to be modified for our purposes; and will post my results.
FYI: I should be getting my MMA registration card in the mail sometime soon.
BTW: the formal definition of a Co-Op: co-op - a jointly owned commercial enterprise (usually organized by farmers or consumers) that produces and distributes goods and services and is run for the benefit of its owners
In the next few days I'll be checking with local authorities to see what legal requirements there are for forming a co-op. I'll also check if there are unique requirements for the specific sort of co-op we're looking to form. Finally, I'll check on getting funding to help set up such a co-op once we know the basic requirements. I'm very intereted in seeing a co-op here in the Flathead Valley, Kalispell specifically.
I've just posted a request for information about setting up a co-op from: Kalispell Area Chamber of Commerce 15 Depot Park Kalispell, MT 59901 Phone: (406)758-2800 I'll post the reply as soon as it comes in.
This is the email I got back today when I inquired about setting up a co-op in Montana:
From: Chris Parson Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 4:44 PM To: 'argiod@bresnan.net' Subject: Co-Op
http://www.mcdc.coop/about_mcdc.html
The above link is a good resource for developing and reviewing a business model of a Co-Op. It is the Montana Cooperative Development Center located in Great Falls.
Chris A. Parson, Director
Small Business Development Center - Kalispell 15 Depot Park Kalispell, MT 59901 Direct: 406-758-2802
hey skip, are you the fellow I spoke with at the cannibis at the capitol who's from Townsend or Lewistown, forgot which? I had your biz card but lost it.
44 comments:
ok I'll bite...
What are the pro's and con's of a co-op?
How does a co-op work?
What is it differnt between an co-op and an union or guild,?
Can a co-op be state wide?
What are tax guide lines for a co-op? pro's vs. con's
Are co-op regulated by Laws and Gov't depts.? which ones?
Is a MT med co-op based in a AG co-op setting like Western Suger?
Can a MT Med co-op be a physiological co-op?
Please!!! inform US so we will not fear or be ignorant of the law.
zebon
Great questions- requiring some
thought and research.
Will report back.
some googling and a call to the Montana Secretary of State may be a worthwhile endeavor to undertake regarding some of these questions.
There is always strength and safety in numbers.-
peace
Agoodhope
My own view is that zebon's questions are largely a matter of semantics. A "co-op" means what you decide it does, and same for a "union" or a "guild." And tax questions are separate, specific to "for profits" and "non profits" and various types of legal structures one can choose (check a basic business book, I would think, for starter-insight). Meanwhile, Montana's medical marijuana law contains no particular provisions for "co-ops" or variations of whatever your specific concept might happen to be. Anything other than a single caregiver, providing solely to his or her registered patients, is something that operates in one of our law's many gray areas and not something that PFU would recommend. It's unfortunate, but that's the current status, and while we plan to try our hardest to be effective in promoting positive change this coming winter, we don't expect to succeed on issues of this sort in the near future.
hi all ....i am new here but on board with all of you 100%.
i do have another question ...can a person be a caregiver for more than one registered patient?
If so would not that be a start of a co-op?
forgive me if some of my questions have been asked ...as i stated i am new here but you will all know me very well, soon.......i am a big supporter of Montana's medical marijuana law.
stay well
dr bud
Thanks for getting this going.
As long as growers don't have any outlet for any excess legal harvest, some are gonna dump it onto the streets, and this needs to be addressed.
I don't know how co-ops work, but think it's basically a bunch of folks with common interests combining their stocks to buy up excess, regulate prices, quality, etc. and insure such stock always be available to it's members only. I'd like to see any Mt. co-op include measures to buy up lower cut product, popcorn buds, trichchome covered leaves, etc. and then process it into usable product, like hash, oils and the likes.
Members would also enjoy the legal trading of clones.
Obviously we've been left on our own to work out these open issues and if no one does anything, nothing will happen.
You ask tough questions . . . ones needing more than speculation.
Let us co-op the research. I'll see what I can gather on the tax angle.
The Attorney General of California, Jerry Brown, has just compiled an "opinion" on cooperatives. While it will have no impact on Montana, it might set a standard for how our state law evolves.
What Brown says is that the cooperatives need to be non-profit. That doesn't necessarily mean 501-C3, but it does mean not for profit.
Now, this doesn't mean the cooperative can't pay a salary or compensation. So the trick is just to end the fiscal year with a zero on the bottom line. You don't have to be too creative to see how this is accomplished.
co-oops....well i am doing some research.
so far...... co-ops are owned by like minded people ...that would be us.....
consumers in some co-ops get dividends on how much product they purchase...yes employees get paid too.....dividends are paid out of any profits that are made...the more the consumer buy's the more dividends they receive back...
a co-op is a force of people,
(consumers), like a big partnership with alot of "partners" so to speak. there for, if there would be 1000 consumers they would also be owners ...hmmmm wow now that would be a voice...
still searching
again thanks to mtpfu for this site
be well
dr,bud
oh yeah,
there are different types of 501's political and non-political i was the founding father of a national 501 (c)(6) a little over a year ago this is a political non profit, imo, this would be the way to go so we keep a voice in MT.
it is a lot of work and some funding, it takes people that work hard! it took 6 months of meetings once a week, everything has to be in place or it can fall flat on its face.....fast.
i'm up for it...not falling on my face....but to make it happen
this could also be a GREAT way to help those whom are on a low income and need help.
be well
dr.bud
Count us in - does anyone have an opinion on agricultural non-profits? It could work to allow family farmers to supplement their income. That's something we've been pondering. I see nothing in the qualifications that would exclude us - We're on board...
Not all that difficult to be a "non-profit" what with all the expenses of initial system set-up, electricity, rent/mortgage, security, nutrients. Factor in a couple cycle failures, insect infestations,thieves and the many "friends" you will attract and that profit margin drops off the radar pretty hastily.
High in the Pintlars
A union or guild carry definitions that have political or religious intent. A co-op is a group working together to accomplish the same goals. Co-op membership does come with benifits as well as responsibilities. The purpose of co-op membership would be larger purchasing power,cheaper prices, and safety. With hopes of providing so much cheap medicine that a new low for medicine pricing is established. Namaste
Folks, MTPFU staff (Tom and Skip and Angela) are pondering adding co-op language to our legislative efforts for this session.
We need your ideas re: how to enable co-ops.
Chris's comments just above this comment are really important and perceptive.
What else do folks have to say? What advice might you render unto us?
Another thing to keep in mind: Co-ops are owned by the members.
They have value. My electricity is furnished by a co-op. It's worth millions of dollars.
Toy with that notion. A co-op can issue memberships which, like stock in a company, have value.
I like what i am reading on co-op's & I'am with ya,call it what ever you want! JUST LET'S DO IT but... how far would i have to drive in the winter, let's say.. to drop off? K-spell, ZooLa? Could we have 3 regional areas to the state? and with the thought of adding other product lines, like baked good and oils. the co=op maybe could run a local outlet densperancy at the collection point?.. as more and more pepole find there way to cards
not everyone will be able to aford to or be in need to manage large amounts or even the ability to smoke the med.i think free samples will keep us very nonproft.
Kind of sounds like costco...
Free samples? been to a few dispensiaries in N. Cali didnt see any free samples...
Okay... breathe.. Let's remember that nothing can be built overnight, and although there is an urgency and a definite need for some kind of organized group (whatever the terminology used), we must keep in mind that these things take time... that is, if we want to do them right. Nothing of value comes fast and easy. Namaste.
free samples: my doc gives free samples of drugs and if you call the number on the T.V. Ad from drug Co. you can get a free samples but when i go to CVS or Wallgreensn NO free samples and payment is C.O.D same as when i buy on the street. I have also gotten shitty meds on the street & from people who don't know how to grow or cure. so you say it's "good" and you want how much for it?
A co-op would be ideal considering the current state of laws on MMJ in Montana.
I think that a co-op could be either a collection of caregivers or a single person/group organizing and running a collection of caregivers.
This will achieve 3 things:
1) Caregivers will not have to deal directly with patients freeing up time (money) for them
2) Patients can go to a single location to find out what kind of meds are available rather than having to go through multiple channels just to find 1 caregiver.
3) Prices can be kept sane and limited so we don't turn into California.
co-ops will not work for the patients in the back wood of montana who have to drive an hr to the nearest hospital they need carecivers a lot closser to them and it would cost to much to establish a co-op in enouph places to reach those patients
if the econamey keeps going the way it is prices arnt gona go down there gona go up...
We have a co-op. It is called the Rocky mountain Cannabis Co-operative. We deliver to the backwoods of Montana. We are just getting started and developing our group of patients/members. We are commited to producing high quality medicine at a reasonable price. I have been involved in this movement for many years and have worked through many of the snags we have discussed here. If anyone is interested in meeting face to face and disscussing how our non-profit co-operative can help. Drop us a e-mail.
rmcc at hushmail. com.
there are a lot of backwood where are u located
We are in Bozeman and delivering in multiple towns up to 6 hours from Bozeman.
thats a long way but not far enouph
We are willing to deliver state wide. Our goal is to provide safe access to high quality affordable medicine for all medical marijuana patients in Montana.
Hello all,
I am puting a x-mass Defence Fund Challange out there to ALL other Cargivers out there. To meet or beat my donation of $100. I mailed it to day,so please give it a day or 2 to get there and then the admin.could post... if I was B.S.'n (NOT) this is $$$ well spent!
Zebon.
Zebon-
Sent my $100 last week.
anyone else gonna give a little?
Spread some love.
Peace
Rich
are there any paitents in the sanders county area that are having trouble finding proper medication with proper suply?
I believe this is a state wide problem,not just sanders county.
Could be a new blog though....Admin...
Counties medication is scarce.
Could link up patients and caregivers state-wide.
Rich
TO RMCC WOULD LIKE TO START TALKING I'M, ESTABLISHED CAREGIVER AND CURIOUS ABOUT SOME INFO' (stregisjim@yahoo.com)
Merry christmas!!
Rich
When is the next get together Rich?Will be ready to take on a couple card carrying patients any time.In the Butte area.Happy Holidays to you all.
We don't want to forget the feds in this situation.Having an organization opens you up to a RICO charge, should they be so inclined.
BigD
Hello folks...
I would like to invite you all to stop by and visit our message board and check us out.
We are a group of registered patients and caregivers from around the state.
The board has been around for over a year but just recently we added a "public forum" We hope to see you there.
Smokapelli DOT COM
Keep up the good work Skip, Tom and all the folks at PF&U
Peace
Oh hey Skip...
I also wanted to invite you and other PF&U staff to my board. I would like to give you guys your own forum there if you were interested in posting your News updates etc.
Peace
Smokapelli AT Gmail DOTCOM
There has to be a way to make this Medicine available to those who may not be able to afford it. If the co-op idea could make that happen that would be the best thing. Narrow-minded insurance companies aren't going to step up and besides there are many without insurance anyway. There are Patient Assistance programs out there for many other medicines so why should mm be any different? If we all come together we should be able to figure out how best to help people in need. No one should go without medication that improves their quality of life.
Hi, This is mike from The Healing Center in bozeman a community co-op. I would like to addresse some questions here.1. we do bas our co-op off california standards.2. we are a not for profit.3. we are trying to get a classification on the mt. secrateray of states website.4. We are open to all out there wanting to help patients.5. we work on a percentage basis to provide free meds to patients as well as accepting a resonable copensation for costs incurred by the co-op.We look forward to working together to help patients...we do have meds avail dried and cured incuding,cannabutter,tincture,oils,clones,help with setting up your own grow room...mike 406-581-8712 email us at wscc420@yahoo.com
We are pondering becoming a Co-OP but will wait to see about what happens in 2009's legislative session before we determine that. This year is very exciting! We are caregivers in the Butte area but will travel anywhere in the state in order to service our patients. Mining City Medical Marijuana is new but we have the best QUALITY medicine in the state. Always organic, always healthy! We are currently offering Trainwreck, a beautiful indoor organic. We carry edibles as well and are here to assist you with any questions you may have. Whether it be about the laws, the treatment of symptoms with certain strains or even a doctor referral, if we do not know we will find out! We are here to help ensure health and happiness to all our patients! Peace, Love and Health! All emails welcome--minigncitymdmjathotmail.com
I'm thinking we could model a Co-op on the Montana Organic Producers Co-op, since what we're doing is only different by the nature of the specific 'produce' we are looking to grow. http://www.ofarm.org/pages/031307.htm
I'm working on obtaining a copy of their formation documents. Once obtained I'll ask around about how this would have to be modified for our purposes; and will post my results.
FYI: I should be getting my MMA registration card in the mail sometime soon.
John Chalinder
Kalispell, MT
BTW: the formal definition of a Co-Op:
co-op - a jointly owned commercial enterprise (usually organized by farmers or consumers) that produces and distributes goods and services and is run for the benefit of its owners
In the next few days I'll be checking with local authorities to see what legal requirements there are for forming a co-op. I'll also check if there are unique requirements for the specific sort of co-op we're looking to form.
Finally, I'll check on getting funding to help set up such a co-op once we know the basic requirements. I'm very intereted in seeing a co-op here in the Flathead Valley, Kalispell specifically.
I've just posted a request for information about setting up a co-op from:
Kalispell Area Chamber of Commerce
15 Depot Park
Kalispell, MT 59901
Phone: (406)758-2800
I'll post the reply as soon as it comes in.
John, could you get ahold of me? Easiest way is info AT mtpfu.org. I'll then send you my phone number.
Skip
This is the email I got back today when I inquired about setting up a co-op in Montana:
From: Chris Parson
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 4:44 PM
To: 'argiod@bresnan.net'
Subject: Co-Op
http://www.mcdc.coop/about_mcdc.html
The above link is a good resource for developing and reviewing a business model of a Co-Op. It is the Montana Cooperative Development Center located in Great Falls.
Chris A. Parson, Director
Small Business Development Center - Kalispell
15 Depot Park
Kalispell, MT 59901
Direct: 406-758-2802
Fax: 406-758-2805
E-mail: sbdc@kalispellchamber.com
Website: www.kalispellsmallbusiness.com
hey skip, are you the fellow I spoke with at the cannibis at the capitol who's from Townsend or Lewistown, forgot which? I had your biz card but lost it.
Post a Comment